"Everyone is convinced that America has lost its mind[.]" Every generation is convinced that America's going to Hell in a hand basket...and they're not necessarily wrong. It's a matter of perspective.
We see chaos, greed, and corruption, and we think America is becoming unmoored, but so much of that is human nature- lack of a moral center, lack of self-awareness, lack of a sense of community. In a way, it's not thematically different than Russia in the '90s (and yes, I just finished watching all seven "Trauma Zone" episodes. Ugh.), though stylistically it sure as Hell is.
Humanity overreacts. It's what we do. Things are seldom ever as bad or as good as we believe them to be. Will times like these change us? Sure. Will they ruin us? Possibly, but more likely we'll manage to bounce back in some shape, manner, or form.
Or we'll all go to Hell together when we go. Drinks are on me!
"justice and fairness are a man-made construct" -- This is something I would disagree with. Our approximations to justice are human made, but the ideal of justice is at least objective enough to apply to anything with something like our chemistry and something like our psycho-cognitive make up. Introduce me to plasma-entities in the Crab nebula, and we can have a conversation about the metaphysics of morality beyond that which is graspable -- or even presently imaginable -- by the human psyche (of feeling and intellect.) Until then, I will work with what is in front of me.
By the way, the attack on Pearl Harbor was only technically an attack on "American" soil -- Hawai'i was only a territory at the time.
Many years before 9-11, when I was still living in Chicago, I commented to a friend at the time that my greatest fear about a terrorist attack was not the death it might cause but the savagery it would inspire.
"Inspire" -- inspiritus (Latin) -- pneuma (Greek) -- breath. To breath into. To give life.
"I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." (Hindu, Upanishads, I believe.)
"Is there any coming back from that?"
The US Army required every German citizen in the vicinity to take a walking tour of the Death Camps they'd pretended weren't there. While there are individual exceptions, on the whole the Germans did come back from that. I don't care how pissed off anyone might be, we've still not gone that far.
So yeah. It is possible to come back from that.
Better by far never to go there in the first place.
I was hoping to hear from you on such a Whiteheadian (word?) or at least metaphysical concept. Who better than you?
But...I stand by my premise. Where else do we find "fairness and justice" in the flora and fauna of our world? These are moral precepts, moral absolutes, and therefore human in origin. Religion tried to codify these abstractions into laws and Commandments, but that only underscores my point.
I didn't know that taking a "walking tour" of the death camps was a requirement for the locals. Jesus. I would have gone batshit.
Post war yes everyone in the neighboring towns was required. They didn't lose their shit because THEY KNEW. They weren't sorry for the camps, they were just terribly terribly sorry they got caught.
To this day as far as I know (post Merkle?) Every German school child is stillbrequired to visit one of the camps. Note it's a multiple choice quiz on your humanity. Dachsu vs Bergen Belsrn.
Sad part? The German response of post boomers is "yes that happened a long time ago but we are not part of it. Let's move on".
Sort of the equivalent of American response "we didn't own slaves."
"hoping to hear from you" -- like you could shut me up.
"Where else do we find fairness and justice?" -- I could have been clearer here. Just because they are aspirational does not mean they are not objective. Physical science, for example, aspire for a fully adequate characterization of physical reality. Childish buffoons like Stephen Hawking imagined (he's dead now) that we were basically there. Of course we are not. But the "there" that we aspire to is not less "there" just because we are not yet there. So, yes, I would argue that things like "justice" are objective realities, regardless of our failures to reach them.
By the (or, yet another) bye: fabulous book you might pull up some time, Iris Murdoch: "Metaphysics as a Guide to Morals." Yes, this is the same IM of such world class novels as "The Sea, The Sea" etc. She was an Oxford educated philosopher who became more famous for her fiction.
One of the things about MGM is that she tracks Plato's "Symposium", and argues that the structure of this dialog is a spiral that never reaches its ultimate goal. It only ever continues to approach it. And as I read MGM, I realized that she was consciously (but only implicitly) following the same structure in her argument. It was a pretty exciting experience for me to see it happening, and then see it confirmed that I wasn't imagining it.
But anyway, "justice" is like a limit at infinity: your function can approach it to any arbitrary degree of closeness, but it will never be "there." Yet that does not mean that the "there" isn't there. In fact, that is the definition of the "thereness" of the "there."
Also, your accusatory finger at religion? The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King directed the American Civil Rights movement from his pulpit and the churches. Unless you are prepared to damn wholesale the ACRM without further discussion, you don't get to lecture others about religion.
What about Presidential relative grifters, I'm talking about Hunter AND Don Jr, Ivanka and Eric! At least Jimmy Carter had the decency to be embarrassed by his brother Billy. Nothing more emblematic about man's tendency to cash in.
I could have filled thousands of pages with all the grifters--over just the last twenty years. You reminded me about Jimmy and Billy. I have a dim recollection that, indeed, Billy was something of a family embarrassment.
I think it is pretty specious to put Joe and Don on the same level here. President Biden is clearly sad about the situations that Hunter has put himself in, just as he is clear that he will always love him, regardless, because he is his son. But claiming that President Biden is in anyway smiling and waving off Hunter's misadventures is, at the very least, blatantly false.
TFG has bragged about wanting to shag his own daughter. He's never tried to distance himself from any of their overt corruption. And -- aside from wanting to shag his own daughter -- he's never really made any public sign of love to his spawn. Only a predatory acknowledgment of their usefulness.
"Only a predatory acknowledgment of their usefulness" is PERFECTLY said. Also agree with you about Biden. 1) he didn't let Hunter set up shop inside the White House; 2) he clearly loves his son, which is more than anyone can say about Trump. In fact, the whole situation is just sad.
"It’s the boss who steals your ideas at work but still gets promoted to C-suite." This is the perfect allegory for cause and effect AND our belief in said ideology. Human emotions, lives are not physics except maybe in some way chaos theory.
We have such an inherent belief in cause/effect that we really believe that working harder gets you more money. That if you give money to Jim and Tammy Faye Baker Jayzus will bless you. Or $99 for virtual Trump cards will somehow stop the non-existent flood of black and brown skinned people. Who on the whole have figured out what a shit storm the US has become.
The trump believers are still waiting for their savior to somehow bless them despite all evidence to the contrary. They made Mephistophelean bargains. No you are not getting your soul or your mind back.
Tracy I think you fail to understand the religious fervor of repugnicans. If they could figure out who to attack (other than people of color, LGBTQ and uppity women?) I truly believe they would wage a jihad although they would call it a crusade.
Cry Havoc and let loose the dogs of war. We can only hope in this instance that chaos theory wins.
It's all fair and just isn't it? Cause and effect make it so. Although, suddenly I feel out of my depth in this thread because of my failure to grasp moral precepts other than those I learned, dare I say, in kindergarten, which were directed at socializing us so that we could later be civilized. It didn't work on everyone in the class, including me until very recently.
Looking down upon the world from a too-high vantage point, one can be mystified by the "success" of some and the "failure" of others. Why did such and such an asshole get the bonus, or the promotion, or the beautiful partner, big house...whatever...and others far more deserving didn't?
Down at ground level where we can apprehend more detail in the doings of all and sundry, we can see cause and effect at work in the usual way. If you have been inhibited from doing certain things by the values that were inculcated in you, then certain pathways to "success" may not avail themselves; certain illicit activities may be off-limits. We may be attracted - or by our nature, compelled - to engage in activities, occupations, callings (writing anyone?) that for most of us do not pay-off financially. Etc. Etc.
The depression that comes from not acknowledging causes and effects at the micro level cannot be lifted at the macro. It being Christmas, we can make a gift of a light-hearted version of our very Selfs to the world. We can always ascend up to the 30,000 foot level of our dysthymia on the first day of the new year.
Wow, so true! Argh, fuck, bah humbug etc. Best well packaged Christmas gift ever, filled with reality and a shiny bow. Knowledge is power. Receiving that knowledge is a gift. While eternally optimistic, you’ve shined a light that bleeds through every corner of our boxes and pops our bubbles, exposing the lies, power and deceit. It comes as no surprise, it’s a regifted Republican white elephant that perpetually shits peanuts during this circus. Life is hard, but “the game” makes it impossible to achieve equality, it is rigged. Hard work is like an escalator that morphs into a slide and eats your soul at its grates. If only those grates had neutered his balls when he descended, before he could spread his seeds of grumpism. Fairness and accountability I is everything. Today’s reality is complete BS and farcical. I, for one, received that proverbial short stick, being diagnosed with prostrate cancer a week before Covid hit, dealing with isolation and the unknowns. Let alone dealing with a verbally abusive gin soaked alcoholic father. Life is like a box of chocolates, we just haven’t thrown out the ones that taste like shit! So yeah, water will eventually seek its level. Only time will tell if it’s half full or half empty. Without optimism, then what’s the point of purpose? 🤞🥰
"Everyone is convinced that America has lost its mind[.]" Every generation is convinced that America's going to Hell in a hand basket...and they're not necessarily wrong. It's a matter of perspective.
We see chaos, greed, and corruption, and we think America is becoming unmoored, but so much of that is human nature- lack of a moral center, lack of self-awareness, lack of a sense of community. In a way, it's not thematically different than Russia in the '90s (and yes, I just finished watching all seven "Trauma Zone" episodes. Ugh.), though stylistically it sure as Hell is.
Humanity overreacts. It's what we do. Things are seldom ever as bad or as good as we believe them to be. Will times like these change us? Sure. Will they ruin us? Possibly, but more likely we'll manage to bounce back in some shape, manner, or form.
Or we'll all go to Hell together when we go. Drinks are on me!
You watched? Fantastic. What were your thoughts? Think you might get a Cowboys out of it? Because I would love love love to get your take.
Surreal. Alice in Wonderland on meth. I am planning to write about it. I just need some time to process seven hours of too-weird-to-be-real. 😝
"justice and fairness are a man-made construct" -- This is something I would disagree with. Our approximations to justice are human made, but the ideal of justice is at least objective enough to apply to anything with something like our chemistry and something like our psycho-cognitive make up. Introduce me to plasma-entities in the Crab nebula, and we can have a conversation about the metaphysics of morality beyond that which is graspable -- or even presently imaginable -- by the human psyche (of feeling and intellect.) Until then, I will work with what is in front of me.
By the way, the attack on Pearl Harbor was only technically an attack on "American" soil -- Hawai'i was only a territory at the time.
Many years before 9-11, when I was still living in Chicago, I commented to a friend at the time that my greatest fear about a terrorist attack was not the death it might cause but the savagery it would inspire.
"Inspire" -- inspiritus (Latin) -- pneuma (Greek) -- breath. To breath into. To give life.
"I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." (Hindu, Upanishads, I believe.)
"Is there any coming back from that?"
The US Army required every German citizen in the vicinity to take a walking tour of the Death Camps they'd pretended weren't there. While there are individual exceptions, on the whole the Germans did come back from that. I don't care how pissed off anyone might be, we've still not gone that far.
So yeah. It is possible to come back from that.
Better by far never to go there in the first place.
I was hoping to hear from you on such a Whiteheadian (word?) or at least metaphysical concept. Who better than you?
But...I stand by my premise. Where else do we find "fairness and justice" in the flora and fauna of our world? These are moral precepts, moral absolutes, and therefore human in origin. Religion tried to codify these abstractions into laws and Commandments, but that only underscores my point.
I didn't know that taking a "walking tour" of the death camps was a requirement for the locals. Jesus. I would have gone batshit.
Post war yes everyone in the neighboring towns was required. They didn't lose their shit because THEY KNEW. They weren't sorry for the camps, they were just terribly terribly sorry they got caught.
To this day as far as I know (post Merkle?) Every German school child is stillbrequired to visit one of the camps. Note it's a multiple choice quiz on your humanity. Dachsu vs Bergen Belsrn.
Sad part? The German response of post boomers is "yes that happened a long time ago but we are not part of it. Let's move on".
Sort of the equivalent of American response "we didn't own slaves."
"hoping to hear from you" -- like you could shut me up.
"Where else do we find fairness and justice?" -- I could have been clearer here. Just because they are aspirational does not mean they are not objective. Physical science, for example, aspire for a fully adequate characterization of physical reality. Childish buffoons like Stephen Hawking imagined (he's dead now) that we were basically there. Of course we are not. But the "there" that we aspire to is not less "there" just because we are not yet there. So, yes, I would argue that things like "justice" are objective realities, regardless of our failures to reach them.
By the (or, yet another) bye: fabulous book you might pull up some time, Iris Murdoch: "Metaphysics as a Guide to Morals." Yes, this is the same IM of such world class novels as "The Sea, The Sea" etc. She was an Oxford educated philosopher who became more famous for her fiction.
One of the things about MGM is that she tracks Plato's "Symposium", and argues that the structure of this dialog is a spiral that never reaches its ultimate goal. It only ever continues to approach it. And as I read MGM, I realized that she was consciously (but only implicitly) following the same structure in her argument. It was a pretty exciting experience for me to see it happening, and then see it confirmed that I wasn't imagining it.
But anyway, "justice" is like a limit at infinity: your function can approach it to any arbitrary degree of closeness, but it will never be "there." Yet that does not mean that the "there" isn't there. In fact, that is the definition of the "thereness" of the "there."
Also, your accusatory finger at religion? The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King directed the American Civil Rights movement from his pulpit and the churches. Unless you are prepared to damn wholesale the ACRM without further discussion, you don't get to lecture others about religion.
What about Presidential relative grifters, I'm talking about Hunter AND Don Jr, Ivanka and Eric! At least Jimmy Carter had the decency to be embarrassed by his brother Billy. Nothing more emblematic about man's tendency to cash in.
I could have filled thousands of pages with all the grifters--over just the last twenty years. You reminded me about Jimmy and Billy. I have a dim recollection that, indeed, Billy was something of a family embarrassment.
And only a little bit. He liked beer, but not enough to become a rapist and a Supreme Court Justice.
I think it is pretty specious to put Joe and Don on the same level here. President Biden is clearly sad about the situations that Hunter has put himself in, just as he is clear that he will always love him, regardless, because he is his son. But claiming that President Biden is in anyway smiling and waving off Hunter's misadventures is, at the very least, blatantly false.
TFG has bragged about wanting to shag his own daughter. He's never tried to distance himself from any of their overt corruption. And -- aside from wanting to shag his own daughter -- he's never really made any public sign of love to his spawn. Only a predatory acknowledgment of their usefulness.
"Only a predatory acknowledgment of their usefulness" is PERFECTLY said. Also agree with you about Biden. 1) he didn't let Hunter set up shop inside the White House; 2) he clearly loves his son, which is more than anyone can say about Trump. In fact, the whole situation is just sad.
"It’s the boss who steals your ideas at work but still gets promoted to C-suite." This is the perfect allegory for cause and effect AND our belief in said ideology. Human emotions, lives are not physics except maybe in some way chaos theory.
We have such an inherent belief in cause/effect that we really believe that working harder gets you more money. That if you give money to Jim and Tammy Faye Baker Jayzus will bless you. Or $99 for virtual Trump cards will somehow stop the non-existent flood of black and brown skinned people. Who on the whole have figured out what a shit storm the US has become.
The trump believers are still waiting for their savior to somehow bless them despite all evidence to the contrary. They made Mephistophelean bargains. No you are not getting your soul or your mind back.
Tracy I think you fail to understand the religious fervor of repugnicans. If they could figure out who to attack (other than people of color, LGBTQ and uppity women?) I truly believe they would wage a jihad although they would call it a crusade.
Cry Havoc and let loose the dogs of war. We can only hope in this instance that chaos theory wins.
It's all fair and just isn't it? Cause and effect make it so. Although, suddenly I feel out of my depth in this thread because of my failure to grasp moral precepts other than those I learned, dare I say, in kindergarten, which were directed at socializing us so that we could later be civilized. It didn't work on everyone in the class, including me until very recently.
Looking down upon the world from a too-high vantage point, one can be mystified by the "success" of some and the "failure" of others. Why did such and such an asshole get the bonus, or the promotion, or the beautiful partner, big house...whatever...and others far more deserving didn't?
Down at ground level where we can apprehend more detail in the doings of all and sundry, we can see cause and effect at work in the usual way. If you have been inhibited from doing certain things by the values that were inculcated in you, then certain pathways to "success" may not avail themselves; certain illicit activities may be off-limits. We may be attracted - or by our nature, compelled - to engage in activities, occupations, callings (writing anyone?) that for most of us do not pay-off financially. Etc. Etc.
The depression that comes from not acknowledging causes and effects at the micro level cannot be lifted at the macro. It being Christmas, we can make a gift of a light-hearted version of our very Selfs to the world. We can always ascend up to the 30,000 foot level of our dysthymia on the first day of the new year.
Wow, so true! Argh, fuck, bah humbug etc. Best well packaged Christmas gift ever, filled with reality and a shiny bow. Knowledge is power. Receiving that knowledge is a gift. While eternally optimistic, you’ve shined a light that bleeds through every corner of our boxes and pops our bubbles, exposing the lies, power and deceit. It comes as no surprise, it’s a regifted Republican white elephant that perpetually shits peanuts during this circus. Life is hard, but “the game” makes it impossible to achieve equality, it is rigged. Hard work is like an escalator that morphs into a slide and eats your soul at its grates. If only those grates had neutered his balls when he descended, before he could spread his seeds of grumpism. Fairness and accountability I is everything. Today’s reality is complete BS and farcical. I, for one, received that proverbial short stick, being diagnosed with prostrate cancer a week before Covid hit, dealing with isolation and the unknowns. Let alone dealing with a verbally abusive gin soaked alcoholic father. Life is like a box of chocolates, we just haven’t thrown out the ones that taste like shit! So yeah, water will eventually seek its level. Only time will tell if it’s half full or half empty. Without optimism, then what’s the point of purpose? 🤞🥰
Right? No lies detected. I wish it weren't though.